Since We Can Have Multiple Balance Builds Next to Each Other, Can We Get a "Specialization Build?"

Uber has released the new launcher so we can test multiple balance builds along side each other.

So can we get a balance build where T2 is nerfed to specialty levels and Advanced Eco is way lower?

The general idea is that the units would be balanced so that advanced units would be specialized so that groups of basic units would overwhelm groups of advanced units. So Advanced units need to be spliced into an army rather than have an army of nothing but advanced units. The Advanced eco would be majorly nerfed and advanced metal extractors would only produce 7 metal per second.

If it's a matter of time that it would take, I know quite a few people who would be salivating more than a St. Bernard at the opportunity to get up a test. We could provide a list of stats for every single unit in the game. The Realm is already working on a mod to give exactly this.

And I know there are a ton of people on the forums who would love to play this type of build.

From the words of Uber, we have to go to different extremes and break the balance to see what works.

So can we take it to this extreme since so many people in the community want to try these balance options?

Fixed.
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/streams-pte-and-experimental-builds.58960/#post-917451

I hope so. I really do.

Uber? Pls?

This gets my support.

I would like to see this, just to see what it's like.

Play with the current PTE first. Sure, I'd like to see Uber put up a build with community-sourced-balance, but it would be work/time for them that I'd rather see spent on other things right now.

Which is why we are offering to do all of the work for this direction.

All they'd need to do is plug in the stats.

I imagine it's a fair bit more work than that to get a new stream going - testing (they aren't going to accept changed source code blindly, they'd need to look at all the changes first), additional servers, additional config, deploying the new stream to the servers, then pushing it out to everyone etc.

And then there's the other issues - who would "own" the balance stream? As in, who gets to say what the stats are, and what if some people disagree with some of them?

I am one of those people who have been "salivating more than a st bernard" to get my hands on that server! Change the units, I don't care.. I've already been making balances that will never me implemented because I'm bored!

You're right. There certainly is a lot of logistics.

It's simply an offer, they certainly could do it all on their own.

Either way. I really want to play with this type of balance. Lots of people are asking for it.

Don't get me wrong, I totally, utterly agree

It's just a major can of worms.

Having played the new build twice now, I have to say, now more than ever I REALLY REALLY want this.

The first match I beat the AI to advanced and completely wiped the floor with it. Was like playing the early beta AI again.
Second match the AI beat me to advanced, and the only reason I won was it hurled its commander at a pile of infernos. It was clearly dominating me, even after I got advanced as well.

Its awesome to now be able to test this, and I think we have found the very broken extreme.

Well. The whole purpose of having the launcher was to be able to test stuff like this.

So it would be a shame to not take advantage of the entire purpose of the launcher because it would be difficult.

Uber says they want to take things to extremes, break the game to find the middle ground, and this specialization route is an excellent direction to try out.

That is very unfortunate... Seems to still be a tech race. :-(

Please?

Have you tried the latest PTE build?They have done just that. Still needs some tweaking but close. 24 income maybe isn't as low as you were hoping for but all t2 units are ~4 times more expensive. T2 units are so expensive that you will see them in more supporting specialist roles at metal sparse so you will see more territory fights with t1 armies all over the shop.

I'm pretty sure it is much easier to change a few numbers than make the unit more specialized. I supposes making Gil e and peregrines attack orbital layer is a quick fix and makes them specialized if this is what you were thinking.

They pretty much said there will be direct upgrades in some cases and well this is the game we are making so if you don't like it go play another game in the stream last night.

24 metal income still means the game revolves around stepping up to T2. If you don't step up to T2 and your opponent does, your options are:
1: step up to t2
2: destroy their t2
3: die

Even with T2 units being expensive and in specialist roles, the T2 economy means you will be quickly be left behind if your opponent gets to T2.

Which is what we've been dealing with for the past few months and which is why I stopped playing. Although the increase in T2 unit's cost will help. But still, if your opponent gets to T2 before you, their economy will leave yours in the dust in... a minute or two.

So if you get to T2 a minute or two behind your opponent, even if you have more map control, their economy grows so much faster than yours.

So the game still revolves around the meta of when to step up to T2.

I want the game to revolve around unit combat, not teching up.

Is there even any specific reason the balance nearly everybody wants and proposes is not even remotely considered by Uber?

Btw. you have my full support on this Brian.

I'm absolutely positive that Scathis, Meta et al have given this a lot of thought, considering that is the initial direction it was stated by Uber that the game would go.

It seems that in their opinions, the concept would not survive contact with the public. Bearing in mind that particularly Scathis has so many years and successful games worth of balancing experience, I am absolutely confident that vanilla balance will delivery a good, solid, playable experience.

However, those of us more ideologically wedded to the idea of no direct upgrades are already planning a little something that should be achievable within a very short timeframe after server release.

Uber says over and over that theory crafting cannot be predicted. And we need to take things to extremes and break the game to fix it.

But then they theory craft that our theory crafting won't work and (apparently) won't even try our suggestions.

So theory crafting means nothing unless they do it? Even though such a massive part of the community wants to explore this direction?

The whole point of this stage is to take things to extremes and see if it works. But then they (apparently) refuse to not even test out the by far most clamored for direction or even pretend that the community is asking for it.

Lately it seems that if the community asks feature X, so Uber does the opposite.

Btw. Since you're a Vanguard, this is what I want you to bring before Uber. And based on the amount of likes and comments asking for this, a lot of people want this. There are lots of threads and community members asking for this stuff, so this is exactly the purpose of the Vanguard.

Why is Uber willing to take the game to crazy extremes, except for the extreme the community is requesting?

Agreed, and of course this is exactly the sort of thing we'll bring up at the next meeting we have with them.

It should be mentioned that it has been brought up before on numerous occasions, though not much emphasis has been placed on balance previously, as other features were more of a priority.