Alpha / Beta definition

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by dukyduke, April 16, 2013.

  1. dukyduke

    dukyduke Active Member

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    I was wondering this the alpha approaching, what is the alpha/beta definition for Uber team.

    For example, the "beta" term is far used today and in general it's very close to the release version. It's more stress test, fine tuning and experimenting on a wide variety of configuration.

    I presume it is something like this :

    Alpha:
    Aim: Testing base games functionalities
    Require:
    • - the game can be launch without being an engineer
    • - basic server / client working
    • - game engine working for the game to be playable on a decent configuration
    • - usable UI
    • - must be nicelooking to not give a bad idea of the game
    • - be able to play a complete party without crash
    • - planets generation working
    • - some basics biome implemented partially at least for testing the gameplay
    • - basic AI working
    • - economy system working
    • - most unit types (land/air/naval/kbot/etc.) present (with "greyboxes" unit) and playable
    • - to be able to do small multiplayer game (with possible AI players)
    • - replay ?
    • - bug report system ?

    Beta:
    Aim: Gameplay testing, unit balancing
    Require:
    • - most unit to be playable (with no greybox) and with a growing number
    • - game installation and server/client mechanism fully functional
    • - game engine mostly optimized
    • - UI close to final look
    • - big multilayer server test (40 players)
    • - most commanders in final looks
    • - asteroids blasting planets
    • - all biome present
    • - economy/unit characteristics/build cost/etc. still to be fine tuned
    • - unit concept or game original game mechanisms testing

    Release:
    Aim: Game fully playable and fun !
    Require:
    All things completed and working but can still evolved (unit balacing, add of new units/biome, game improvements/optimisations, etc.)

    Do you think I'm right ?
  2. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Not even slightly. This should be the desired END state of Alpha, not a requirement.
    100% priority. Should not be questionable.
    Very questionable if you're talking about a fully fledged Enemy AI opponent.
    Last edited: April 16, 2013
  3. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

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    You've set the bar unreasonably high. Lower your expectations a lot, or you'll be set for disappointment. Hell, you might even convince others that this hilarity is actually a healthy expectation - you'll leave them disappointed too.


    Replace Alpha with Beta, replace Beta with Release, and replace Release with Many Patches Later. Then you'll have more reasonable set of points.
  4. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    First Public Release Alpha:
    Aim: Testing base games functionalities integrated within a single base executable.
    Requires [x] to begin:
    - Very basic game engine including;
    - - Some usable UI... probably 'console commands',
    - - Very basic terrain (A 'lumpy' Sphere most likely),
    - - Very basic unit AI (pathfinding, construction, shooting, etc),
    - - Some broad unit types (land/air/naval/kbot/etc.) present with "Grey Box" art.
    And Most Importantly
    - Crash report system

    Second, third, forth (and so on) Release Alphas add
    - Single systems to be integrated in the game
    and
    - Gradually expands previously implemented systems.

    This continues until all features are implemented and the project enters "Feature Freeze". No new systems are added and the game enters First Beta Release.

    Beta Releases:
    Aim: Bug Fixing... That's it.
    Last edited: April 16, 2013
  5. dukyduke

    dukyduke Active Member

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    Haha I'll not be part of the alpha so I'll not be disappointed by it ! :D

    No seriously, quoting nanolathe in other thread:
    Frankly, I'll be very happy with an alpha with that but we already see a little more than that:
    • - Some units/buildings are already nice looking and more than greyboxes.
    • - We saw that they started designing basic units types for purpose testing.
      It does not means that all units types are basically working but they definitively seems to be looking for that for alpha.
    • - The planet render inside the planet generator when zooming on it quite nice too, I hope having something similar in game.
    • - We saw they tested some local light effects too that we can expect to see in alpha (even if it is not at start of alpha)
    • - Also the pathfinding seems to be quite advanced already

    Moreover, Neutrino always said it does not want to show to early things. So yes I expect a little more that what is my personal definition of "alpha". It's really why, I want to know what is their vision of the alpha game ?
  6. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    All of the units you have seen so far are Pre-Rendered Whitebox units.
    You can expect to see them in the LATE Alpha releases... the very very very late alpha releases.

    There is no need for fancy unit graphics unless Uber isn't using this 'Alpha' for testing purposes and is, in fact, using it as early publicity...

    Which I really hope isn't the case.
  7. dukyduke

    dukyduke Active Member

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    I think you're first alpha definition will never be public.

    I definitively not agree with that. It's not only bug fixing.
    For me it's perfect phase, to test some gameplay mechanism. For example, testing the concept of a unit building bridges over sea.
    It's also a place where to do most of the game units balancing (that will be continually fine tuned after release)
    Last edited: April 16, 2013
  8. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    For you. Not for the rest of the gaming industry.
    It's very easy to argue that "Balance Issues" are infact "Bugs" within a game environment;
    Also, though my list may not be the first release candidate for the public backers it does show the minimum that can be present. Your list was all over the place. Beta is NOT a place to test new mechanics, no matter what you may think and no matter what a specific company calls it;

    If it's testing if new feature works at all, it's Alpha.
    If it's making sure the feature works as intended, without unexpected results in multiple situations, it's Beta.

    Those are definitions of Alpha and Beta.
  9. dukyduke

    dukyduke Active Member

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    One thing is sure, that we all have our own vision of what will be the alpha/beta, and in general, our own vision of the game.

    So it can be good to have some details on alpha and beta definitions.

    May be you're right and at some points I agree with you.
  10. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    You have your own vision of what an Alpha and Beta is that does not conform to the industry standard definitions.

    Seeing as Uber Ent is a company within the gaming industry we can be pretty certain that they are at least aware of the industries Alpha and Beta definitions.

    If Uber is trying to pull a fast one and pawn-off early access Beta (as defined by the industry standards) we'll see a pretty big explosion against them from those more 'industry savvy' individuals.

    I know I'd be one of them.

    ---

    Then again what I'm expecting is actually early access to a "Press Alpha" type thing. If I'm wrong and we get in earlier than that I'll be ecstatic.
  11. KNight

    KNight Post Master General

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    I'd be right there with you.

    The Problem is that many portions of the industry have been misusing(or at least misrepresenting) Alpha and Beta.

    Nanolathe has it rightly explained.

    Mike
  12. supremevoid

    supremevoid Member

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    I think they will add biome per update and I think not all bioms will be present in beta.
  13. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I don't know where, but neutrino wrote that the alpha aims to be "playable".
    So it won't be as drastic as it reads from some of the stuff people have written here, I guess.
    A working ingame-ui i.e. is necessary to have a playable game.
  14. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Console Commands not doing it for ya? :p
  15. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    select unit by id 1 // acu is always the first unit
    move to position 2 32 13 23 // planet x y z // xyz are guessed values
    build factory_t1 33 13 24 // type x y z


    thanks, no
  16. dukyduke

    dukyduke Active Member

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    It's my though here. I do not want a game industry definition of the alpha but what Uber team aims to include in it. It seems they do not want share too "work in progress" things.

    And from what I have read in this forum, they have some quite advanced things working separately (and are hardly working of making them working well together).

    Wait and see...
    Next livestream will give some clues for sure.
  17. asgo

    asgo Member

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    "alpha" and "beta" are relative arbitrary labels for two phases of testing between in house testing and the release candidate. The main common aspect to most alpha/beta phases over different software products/vendors is the different number of testers in each category and the inversely proportional expectation from the devs for testers to deal with the rough sides of the software.
    How unpolished the alpha can be, depends on the software and if the devs think the testers can actual test the parts they are supposed to or if they would perish on the way there.
    I have seen software, where one could test parts very well even if it doesn't have any resemblance with the final product. On the other hand, some software can't really be tested unless the overall function is established with the consequence, that it might look more or like the final version. (in this case for example, I might think of a few things one could test without having the ability to actually play a session, or one might say a game is a game and can actually be tested best by playing... )

    In the end, without knowing the internals and how the perspective is, speculations on what an alpha will look like specifically and when it will start is .. well.. speculative. ;)
  18. bgolus

    bgolus Uber Alumni

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    The terms "Alpha" and "Beta" are often used differently between different companies in the games industry, and they are further muddied by having player-facing usages of the terms not equating to their internal usage.

    "Alpha" is often used to denote what is known as "Feature Complete", or all of the major systems are in and functional in some form, though not optimized (both from a performance and usability view) and likely unstable. However the usage of "Feature Complete" is pretty much always complete bull though as major features will be missing or so hacked in as to not really exist; having a the equivalent of "function rand() return 0.5" littered through out the code.

    For me the term "Alpha" is better described as the beginning of something that resembles a game. It's probably more accurately described as the point where specific feature testing can start.

    "Beta" for me is the real "Feature Complete" with all (or most) systems actually implemented. On a previous title I worked on the major milestone for Beta was the first time the game could be played from the first level to the last with out crashing and with out needing debug commands beyond god mode.

    How does that equate to our game? I don't know yet, but I'll say it's reassuring to see the expectations you guys seem to have for what "Alpha" and "Beta" releases are don't differ too greatly from our own. The specifics don't match, some features may be significantly later than you're expecting, and some features might be a lot sooner.
  19. neutrino

    neutrino low mass particle Uber Employee

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    QFT.

    The alpha will have a subset of features. The key is that you should be able to actually play the game in some form so we can iterate from there.
  20. Neumeusis

    Neumeusis Active Member

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    Althought i'm perfectly familiar with the Alpha & Beta terms, i think that having in the Alpha at least a good part of dukyduke listing is recommended.

    Like bgolus said, Alpha is usually a "feature complete" state.
    It has its diffusion restrained to a "little" amount of people (it obviously depends on the type of software, but should never be too high) and is used for heavy debugging work.

    Then Beta kicks in for refining work : balance, persistant bugs, load tests, optimisations and so on.
    Usually, a few hundred people is a good number for Beta.
    Well, not for load tests, but you got the idea ;)

    In Planetary Annihilation's case, the amount of people that can have access to the Alpha is more than 8000. 8000 !
    8000 testers jumping of the game at the same time.
    Managing an organized team of 10-20 people can already be problematic.
    Around a hundred, it starts to become a real nightmare. So i don't tell you for 8000...

    Yes, i know, their isn't 8000 PA backers on these forums, but you certainly saw that after each livestream, there is more and more people here. What will happen when 8000 people will receive a Kickstarter update saying "Hey, Alpha is ON ! Come try our game !" ?
    This number will explode, and with the new comer swarm will start the usual new comer problems...

    Now, let's imagine the game is released on Alpha in the "Alpha by the book" state.
    You'll get 8000 people reporting, complaining, arguing, crying about the game crashes, the game bugs and everything that does not run smoothly, thought bug report and the forums.
    Probably half of them will not even know what Alpha really means.

    And Uber has no Customer support like other compagnies do, so all will be managed by the devs and forum crew.

    You got the idea : Mass Suicide at the office and we'll never get this awsome game finished.

    Even without that, it would be a bad advertisment for the game ("The War Z" debacle anyone ? Yes, that is what is happening when an Alpha/Beta state is released to the public)(That and a crappy communication team)(this was a side note).
    You tried PA ? The Alpha just came out !
    Yes, i tried it. Crashed 4 times in 1 hour, couldn't even start a real fight.
    Nobody want that !

    Even if i hope beeing completly wrong, i've seen that kind of thing happen waayy to often to not give my opinion on the matter :)

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