Custom Commanders: What's the limitation of design?

Good evening gentlemen!

I can't see this topic has been discussed before so I'll just throw it in here.

What are the limitations to the custom commanders? I've been thinking about this a lot, and just had to throw down a topic on it.


Stats:

Would we be able to change the power of the commander;

lets say the standard commander has 150 DPS, shooting 15 bullets every second doing 10 damage. Could we change it so that the commander shoots one bullet every 2 seconds doing 300 damage, or maybe every 5 seconds to do 750 damage in 1 hit, etc?

Would we be able to change the characteristics of the damage?

Splash damage, instead of 1 shot doing 100 damage, your weapon does 10 damage to a maximum of 10 units, or 20 damage if there's only 5 units close by.

Would we be able cut on the movement speed and make the commander more durable?

Design:

To the design, I've thought of different things that might be cool:

Different States:

the Commander having a passive and a combat state, when you build, the commander has hidden/retracted armor plates and build with both arms, but when he engages combat, one of the arms retract, flip around and brings out a weapon as well as retracting the head and bringing out his armor plates.

In supreme commander, you have different abilities and upgrades for your ACU.
I'm not sure if the devs have said anything about commanders having similar things in PA but lets say they do:

Overcharge: Increasing damage of main weapon

Would I for example be able to design my bot to have another state of his weapon while under overcharge? Like making a kinetic weapon "transform" into a rail gun, where the gun extends, and magnetic chambers folds up around the weapon to simulate it using magnetic energy instead of explosives to fire off the projectile.

Jet-Pack: Quick movement around the battlefield.

Lets say you activate your jet-pack, would you be able to make it so that the commander goes into another state? Retracting arms to the body, opening the back revealing huge rocket engines, and maybe some on the arms and legs to keep it stable in flight and under takeoff/landing..

I could go on forever about this, so I'll keep it to that, what do you guys think? Is this too much to ask from the devs? (Personally I think it sounds like a lot of work, but maybe it isn't, I have no idea)

Would be nice to hear from Team Uber about this too! I've been wondering on the Custom Commanders for a long time!

¨~ Chris

You beat my pledge by $52

The game must be equal for everyone except visuals.

There should not be advantage or disadvantage for paying money.

That's not what I'm saying either, there would be no advantage of having a shot fire every 5 seconds doing 500 damage, than firing 1 shot every second for 100 damage, because you'll end up with 100 damage per second on an average anyways.

what I mean is that if you want a gattling gun for your commander, they can change the stats to match up with the standard commander to fit your gattling gun. Or if you want a huge 200mm cannon that goes off with a huge bang you could modify it according to that.

and to the armor plates and stuff it would only be visuals (but cool visuals ofcourse)

¨~ Chris

We don't know about any ACU specifics, but neutrino hinted that it maybe would be possible to swap visual model and equipment independently. I mean that you maybe will be able to install any "standard" equipment set into your custom commander visual.

But I personally think that custom commander should have custom equipment set as well. It should be just balanced with any other tech. $1000 is not small price to reward it will one-weak (at most) worth visual model. A plenty of guys here can do that as well.

But really, they won't tell you yet =)

Yes, I really hope that you can get a custom kit for the commander as well, not just the standard one, but both for the weapons and upgrades (if there will be any at all).

I'm just really curious about this and hope we can get some info from the devs, but I'm not gonna put my hopes up just yet

¨~ Chris

It's interesting that you think Commanders would be customized through some kind of unique stats or abilities. Don't forget that PA also has factions.

There are an unspecified number of factions fighting each other. Each is lead by a Commander with different philosophies, ideologies and histories that no one knows about. Where did a particular Comm come from? What has it done? What does it want now? There is a lot under the hood of a Commander to personalize; insignias and taunts and all manner of background lore to toy with.

why is this thread posted in Backers Lounge? This should actually be not for suggestions, I think, but for Uber to post real game information, or am I wrong about that?

I'm hoping that all commanders can be fully customized before and during the game with
You getting so much metal to put into your commander at start and then you can build any of the upgrades or even swap to a new body mid game if you can build it.

It would be great if they could let you even change propulsion types and make mass effect your speed so every option would have a performance cost.

I really like the propulsion types from Zero-K Wheels, Tracks, 2 legs, Spider legs, Hover, Surface Water, Subsurface water, amphibious, Jump-jets.

Commanders could also carry some small units with them like an extra worker, scout or defense turret. Maybe even a starter factory module, or a pre-built Mex.

Commanders could have a lot of option such as:
Power plant type and output (Solar, Wind, Fusion, exc.)
Energy Storage
Power Relay unit (could affect power transmission efficacy and Overcharge ability like making overcharge have a cool down unless its x distance from power generator/relay)
Metal storage
Metal transport relay (effects metal teleportation speed energy needed to transport)
Build power
Propulsion type
Armor
Shielding (damage reduction from a damage type like energy or kinetic or environmental damage like lava)
Radar and sonar
Radar and sonar jamming
Visual camouflage and invisibility cloaking
Primary and secondary weapons (or maybe one weapon that has multiple fire modes there could be a lot of options here maybe even a no weapon option)

CPU power for population cap before building sub-processors. (CPU could also affect unit capture speeds or even offer protection from capture)
Maybe even memory for unit blueprints if you want to limit units you can build.

Maybe a personal transport like we see in the Kickstarter video.

Custom commanders could be a mini-game by itself we will need to wait until the unit builder tool is ready before we know what states are available.

I like the idea of being able to tell what modules a commander has by looking at it and also what it’s currently using like overcharge.

i think anything is welcome here especially subjection from there backers!

as for customization i think just visual would be fine

I didn't pledge that much to be able to get the custom Comm, but if I had that kind of money laying around you betcha I would've....

All I'm really going to add to this is the following: Changing the stats of a weapon, even if the DPS remains the same, will indeed change balance. It's called overkill.

What what I understand by reading the threads. This is a place for us to discuss the game in some elements where the devs would not normally give out that kind of info. Basically we can talk about more stuff about the game and have more or better answers from the developers here than we could in regular section.

Yeah, that's what I thought it was for - so the developers could give us inside info that they don't want posted on the general internets. We'll see how long it is before that trust is abused, but hey. Anyway, it gives us backers a little recognition for our money.

On the subject of custom commanders, I think they've discussed the possibility that commanders could have different abilities. I don't really know where I sit with this. I'm all for having different abilities but I don't think people should have an exclusive ability just because they paid a load of money and someone else can't have it just because they couldn't afford quite that much.

It's posted here because Custom Commanders isn't a part of the general community, they're only backers content so I feel that it would be appropriate to have it in this section.

Yes, but doing an overkill would result in both pros and cons.

Lets say your weapon does 500 damage 1 time every 5 seconds, and you meet 3 units that has 600 health. You would then have to shoot it 2 times, doing a 400 HP overkill and leaving your commander without the possibility to attack for 4 more seconds.

A commander that did 100 each second would end up without overkill and would have done 400 HP damage to the second unit before the first commander would fire the next shot.

On the other hand, if it was only 1 more powerful unit vs the commander, lets say it has 1000 HP, the first commander would require 2 shots, using approx 5,5 seconds if you count the bullet time. while the second commander would need 10 seconds and would've been exposed to more hits from the unit it was fighting.

I agree partly on the custom ability part, I wouldn't want my commander to be better than others just because I paid more money than them, but on the other hand I would love to have something cool that makes me stand out from the crowd.

For me it would be cool enough to just have another effect on the main weapons, or another ability that makes the commander play party popper and cheering sounds on activation.

Just for the laughs after I win a game ofc :3

¨~ Chris

Don't misunderstand me, I am totally in agreement that the custom commanders need to stand out. If anything it has to be at least reflective of the sum pledged in order to ensure that backers who have paid the substantial amount required for the reward don't feel like they have been left short changed.

What I'm saying is that anything the custom commanders have access to that effects gameplay should be accessible to everyone. Not everyone can afford to pay $1,000 for a game and the fact that some people can shouldn't mean that they should have an advantage over those who cannot - however marginal one might argue it is.

I think the fact that these custom commanders will be bespoke and designed on a one-to-one basis between the backers and developers is arguably enough to stand out from the crowd. Furthermore, I think there is scope (after listening to Mavor in the latest live stream) for players to put in a small amount of lore behind their own custom 'faction'. I'm not going to quote him directly, as I cant remember exactly what he said. However, I believe he more or less said that the 'factions' within the game will basically be the commanders and the unit pool will be the same across all the factions. Factions basically being like "political parties".

I think it's interesting how they are talking about implementing it. Perhaps having a range of different commander abilities would be a nice way of changing things up. Maybe it would be an idea to have a pool of commander abilities that can be selected. Any arbitrary system for balancing the number of selectable abilities could be used. Points based limits, ability slots etcetera...

Each of the already announced commanders could have a set load out (selected from the same pool) - allowing players to pick commanders that suit their play style. Backers designing custom commanders could choose a set of abilities to their personal taste (again from the same pool). This gives custom commanders more customisation, without giving them something that other players can't get access to.

Perhaps the option to change abilities through alpha and beta would be wise for players to get to grips with the game and decide what abilities suit them best. Though these could possibly then become locked after their commanders are finalised and the game goes gold. Maybe that's not an issue and abilities should be left customisable. After all, play style can change. Particularly if the game is rebalanced. Just thinking out loud.

This is exactly why Comm balance shouldn't be part of the package.

Toorvis has shown a very good understanding of game mechanics that would escape many people. He shows that tradeoffs are not as equal as they may appear to be. Honorable or not, it is entirely to his (or any gamer's) benefit to seek the "equal" tradeoffs that give him the best advantage on the field.

It is about a guy, using his money, to gain a position among the devs, where he has best ability to adjust game balance towards his favor. I'm sorry. It's Pay to Win.

Worse than that, it's P2W with a resource that can no longer be purchased. The e-bay resell value of such a prize is prone to e-bay abuse, potentially worth much more than its initial $1000 price.

I'm fairly sure that devs will handle that. I don't think that backers will be given an option to choose particular stats - they will be given an option to choose a particular design (look&feel) and stats/features will be evaluated from that design.

Like if you asking for a pink unicorn commander with huge rainbow wings, than you'll probably be given an special D-gun variant shooting microwave-laser-alike rainbow for a short period and less damage than ordinary D-gun. But you do not choose particular trait - you just told devs that you want "pink flying unicorn shooting rainbows". "Shooting rainbows" may result in anything - your ordinary pew-pew laser became rainbow, or your D-Gun became rainbow. Is it weak or is it tough. There is a plenty of room to balance them out.

Also, I don't think that custom ACU stats will be carved in stone. So if some ACU will be considered OP during play, it could be nerfed.

Even if each of custom commander kit would be OP, even then who cares? You got 49K people to play with. Some custom overpowered ACU comes in? Ask him to change kit to something less OP. If he refuses - kick him. It's actually easier than smurf detection in FAF.

P.S. BTW, I'm NOT eligible for custom commander (nor do any my friends), so don't think that I'm defending their rights for marginal reasons. I just think that people are overreacting.

You my friend.. you understand

Edit: Something went horrible wrong with the quotes, sorry about that. hopefully you can still udnerstand what I wrote

What is the problem with having a selection of different commanders to choose from that are different in more ways than just aesthetics? Nothing.

What is wrong with having custom commanders that are different in more ways than just aesthetics? Nothing. Essentially it's the same thing. The difference is that in all the previous games all the commanders were the same initially. But what's to stop us choosing different commander upgrades by selecting different commanders? A bit like commanders from different factions in SupCom for instance.

I don't disagree with the example. Fact is that it's just a basic example of how factions were balanced in previous games: Just think of the pee wee and AK units from TA. There is no reason to suggest that this couldn't be done with commanders, but it must be done in such a way that commanders are equal at the start of the game and there must be no special abilities that aren't available to other commanders - though not necessarily in the same configuration.

Refer to my previous post for the outline of what I am talking about. Supposing you have a bunch of abilities commanders could have:
Shield, nano repair bots, resource generator, builder drones, AA, improved main weapon, torpedo etc.

Imagine a situation where there are a standard series of commanders, each with different fixed configurations of these abilities to upgrade in the game (sort of like in SupCom). Players can choose from a roster of these commanders to suit their play style. Alpha and Progenitor commanders could have unique configurations of these abilities (not unique abilities but unique combination) and custom commanders could pick their own combination of the abilities based on their preference. I see this as a perfectly fine way of implementing variety and customisation to commanders in the game.

The other option is to have them all the same statistically and just make it a completely aesthetic difference. The whole point of my post is that IIRC that uber suggested at some point that there could be differences between commanders. They have also talked about different factions (read commanders) having a hand full of unique units. I also find this acceptable and would point you back to toorvis' and the pee wee and AK.

The difference is that only a hundred people can ever do it.

That's a big problem. Having a division over the quality of a Commander will end up a very toxic influence for the community, and a bad experience for the backer as well. I think they should be recognized a bit better than as the guy who gets booted from games.

While annoying on the pro scene (except for hats. No one hates hats), the idea of personalized commanders can end up trivial in the mod arena. Custom attributes and abilities is a day 1 mod, and players wanting all the custom models will find themselves with a unit pack by the end of the week. Moderating it will become a huge mess and a source of strife for everyone.

What I'm trying to say is, you're looking in the wrong place. The point of a kickstarter is that donations increase the scope of a game and its goals. Big donations should be no different, offering donators a chance to expand the game(and its accompanying universe) with a bit of their own personal touch.